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RACER X
09-03-2009, 04:07 PM
from another forum

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While it may not quite be INEVITABLE, it is HIGHLY PROBABLE that any rider will experience some sort of accident the longer they ride. Ironically, a rider is at greatest risk of having an accident when they first begin riding due to inexperience. Conversely, as you gain experience you continually add to your time exposed to risk, meaning that while you have more experience to use to avoid accidents you are increasing number of opportunities for an accident to occur.

The only certain way to guard against having a motorcycle accident is to not ride. Period. If you choose to ride, you must realize that there is always the risk of an accident, be it big or small, serious or minor, your fault or not.

There. Now, that said, you do a lot to avoid accidents. Here are the main things that come to mind:

1) Training: Take ALL that you can find and then take some more. Start with the MSF courses, take them all and then find more courses to take, anything from track classes to dirt classes to advanced street riding classes to wheelie classes. Any serious, guided, organized, safety minded instruction only adds to your experience and skill set and does so in a controlled environment that allows you to be relatively safe while learning, unlike the street where, if you find that you need to do something that you've never done before, you won't get but one chance to get it right without real consequences.

2) Training: See # 1.

3) Follow at a great distance: Leave as much following distance as you can stand when riding behind other vehicles. The more space you leave, the more time you have to react to any issues coming from the vehicles ahead. If you're on their bumper and they drive into an accident, you'll be in the same accident, whereas if you're 12 seconds back, when they drive into an accident you'll calmly pull over to a safe area, call 911 and lend a hand to those in the accident. Riding with greater following distances also allows you to get a good look at the road surface and provides you with plenty of time to avoid those giant potholes or spilled fluids that would otherwise end your ride.

3a) Ride in space: When riding in traffic, create the largest cushion of space possible between you and all other vehicles. Doing so will make it easier for them to see you and give you more time to react to anything unexpected that they might do.

4) Do NOT ride IMPAIRED: If you drink, do drugs, are taking medication, sleep deprived or doing ANYTHING that may affect your mind or body, just don't ride. Riding safely requires that your mind and body both be sharp and healthy. Anything that negatively affects your perception, judgment, reaction time, ability to think, etc. should tell you to stay off the bike until you’re clean and clear. Riding impaired is a GREAT way to find an accident.

5) Avoid riding in the rain: Motorcycles enjoy many advantages over other vehicles including acceleration, maneuverability and vision. In the rain, many of those same advantages become liabilities due to lose of traction and our lack of windshield wipers and protection from the elements. Acceleration and maneuverability are instantly reduced greatly due to lack of traction and our vision is immediately compromised by the rain and fogging on our helmets/windscreens/glasses. In addition, we become much less visible to the other vehicles on the road.

6) Avoid riding at night: Why? One word: Deer. Or whatever critters you have that are local to the area and much more active at night. Animals are the one thing that we really have no good strategy to defend against. They can appear anywhere at anytime and once spotted you cannot reliably predict their movements/behavior. While animals can certainly be encountered even during the height of the daylight hours, between from dusk until dawn there is far more danger posed by the activities of our wilderness friends.

6a) If you get caught riding at night, choose the largest/most heavily travelled roads you can. Those lesser travelled great two lane roads with the twisties that cut through scenic undeveloped lands are MUCH more likely to animals that are out and about after dark. The larger roads with their noisy traffic, lights and fencing have a much lower probability for an animal encounter.

7) Ride slower. Riding motorcycles fast is easy...and dangerous. The faster you go, the less time you have to react to anything in front of you, including cross traffic, unexpected lane changers, red light runners, stop sign runners, arrogant pedestrians, driveway demons, left turners, double parkers, sudden brakers, crossing deer, decreasing radius corners, sand on your line, etc. It sucks, but the faster you go, the less time you have to be safe. As a new rider, it's PARTICULARLY important to keep the speeds down as new riders generally do not have the experience needed to make informed judgments "speed flexibility".

8) Maintain your ride: If doesn't work right/isn't reliable, then it's an accident waiting to happen. It's tough enough to ride safe with a bike in perfect condition, last thing ya need is to give yourself a handicap by riding a questionable machine. Do it yourself or pay to have it done right, but don't ride a sub-standard machine.

9) ATGATT (All The Gear All The Time): Gear up. IF something happens, there is no question that you want to be over-dressed rather than under-dressed. Less than 5% of motorcycle accidents are fatal but over 85% involve injury. If you're not dressed for it, you'll be in that painful 85%. The closer you are to ATGATT, the better your chances are of being in the 15% that walk away with nothing more than a story to share at the next rally or bike night or on your favorite internet forum.

10) Ride for yourself: Ride b/c you love it. Period. Any other reason is missing the point and distracting while riding. Do not ride to impress anyone. EVER. That includes girls. Yes, even the hot girls! It also includes parents, friends, siblings, co-workers, etc. The second you ride to impress, you run the risk of worrying more about how what you're doing looks to others and less about if what you're doing is smart or safe. Do not ride for gas mileage or the low up front cost of bikes. For most folks, in the long run, cars are cheaper and provide greater utility and are safer. The ONLY reason to ride is because you simply love it. Period.

For some interesting info regarding motorcycle accident stats, check this out: Motorcycle Accident Statistics - webBikeWorld

Here are conclusions from the report:
• Helmet use among fatally injured motorcyclists below 50 percent
• More motorcyclist fatalities are occurring on rural roads
• High blood alcohol levels are a major problem among motorcycle operators
• Half of the fatalities are related to negotiating a curve prior to the crash
• Over 80 percent of the fatalities occur off roadway
• Undivided roadways account for a majority of the fatalities
• Almost two thirds of the fatalities were associated with speeding as an operator contributing factor in the crash
• Almost 60 percent of motorcyclist fatalities occur at night
• Collision with a fixed object is a significant factor in over half of the fatalities
• Braking and steering maneuvers possibly contribute for almost 25 percent of the fatalities
• More riders age 40 and over are getting killed
• Almost one third of the fatally injured operators did not have a proper license
Based on the above conclusions, look at what you can EASILY do to lower your odds of being in a fatal accident:

1) Wear a helmet.
2) Don't drink and ride.
3) Treat corners with respect. Better to go in too slow than too fast.
4) Keep speed down.
5) Don't ride at night.
6) Get a license.

Again, the only way to ensure against a motorcycle accident is to simply not ride but if you do ride, there is a LOT you can do to stack the odds in your favor, both in terms of avoiding accidents and surviving them well if they do occur.

Best of luck!

ANTISOCIAL
09-03-2009, 04:21 PM
To answer your question (YES) & (NO) .

ZeddXavier
09-03-2009, 04:25 PM
6) Avoid riding at night: Why? One word: Deer. Or whatever critters you have that are local to the area and much more active at night. Animals are the one thing that we really have no good strategy to defend against. They can appear anywhere at anytime and once spotted you cannot reliably predict their movements/behavior. While animals can certainly be encountered even during the height of the daylight hours, between from dusk until dawn there is far more danger posed by the activities of our wilderness friends.

QFT

motobilly
09-05-2009, 10:55 AM
like everyone already knows, there's 2 types of riders. one's that have gone down and one's going down..... i happen to fall in the 1st category.:hello:

Japawhat02
09-05-2009, 11:09 AM
all common sense

Japawhat02
09-05-2009, 11:10 AM
but we all know that common sense is on the endangered species list....lol

Intrinzik
09-08-2009, 12:39 PM
Honestly, while I appreciate what is being said, but I don't believe accidents are inevitable. I read something very similar about fatality stats in a book called Proficient Motorcycling, and it's very helpful and reassuring that most fatalities involve behavior that I don't engage in (helmetless, drinking and driving, etc). I know guys that have been riding for decades without an accident. It has to do with reducing your risk factors and not exposing yourself to making catastrophic mistakes.


Add to the list not riding tired or angry.

RojerLockless
09-08-2009, 12:45 PM
Great post

kinnlyn
09-08-2009, 12:54 PM
Well said. I'm alway amazed when I see multiple drinks followed by riding with NO GEAR. I can't even ride without gear anymore. I feel vulnerable to a point that it shakes my confidence and I can't function well. :-/ Guess I won't earn any squid points.

AlexForbes
09-08-2009, 01:02 PM
so true!!

eaglefox20
09-08-2009, 09:58 PM
Honestly, while I appreciate what is being said, but I don't believe accidents are inevitable. I read something very similar about fatality stats in a book called Proficient Motorcycling, and it's very helpful and reassuring that most fatalities involve behavior that I don't engage in (helmetless, drinking and driving, etc). I know guys that have been riding for decades without an accident. It has to do with reducing your risk factors and not exposing yourself to making catastrophic mistakes.


Add to the list not riding tired or angry.

Very valid point. Add not riding above your comfort level.

miguel!!
09-09-2009, 11:39 AM
like everyone already knows, there's 2 types of riders. one's that have gone down and one's going down..... i happen to fall in the 1st category.:hello:

hahah i heard that in biker boys the movie

Squid Killer
02-15-2011, 07:19 AM
like everyone already knows, there's 2 types of riders. one's that have gone down and one's going down..... i happen to fall in the 1st category.:hello:

And anyone who knows about riding safety knows this saying is a load of crap. Crashing is not unavoidable.

Cornerjunkie
02-15-2011, 07:38 AM
Great post, rural roads are dangerous, because of the mis-leading corners and single lanes. I give it to the SMR's, they ride back roads every week, the ones that are experienced, they ride hard, but in a safe manor on their skill level

cychotic
04-27-2011, 10:30 AM
And anyone who knows about riding safety knows this saying is a load of crap. Crashing is not unavoidable.

No one I've ever known or heard in the history of mankind ever learnt to walk without falling... I think bike, motorcycle, snowboard, skateboard, or anything that balances is the same concept...

ochiwon
04-27-2011, 10:51 AM
No one I've ever known or heard in the history of mankind ever learnt to walk without falling... I think bike, motorcycle, snowboard, skateboard, or anything that balances is the same concept...

I see your point, but the reason why we all fall when learning to walk is that we hsnent developed complete motor function or balance yet. Yes, riding is a separate skill set from anything you've done before learning to ride, but we have complete motor, cognitive, and rational control. Especially after we gain experience.

But I get your point, the reason why I gear up all the time, if not over-dress. Never crashed on a bike :knockonwood: but I went down at about 40 mph, downhill, on a longboard wearing just jeans, tshirt, gloves, and a helmet (thank god for that at least)... Writing essays for senior year finals at UT was difficult when i was leaking pus from all the rash I had bandaged up... Ew and ouch. ATGATT

cychotic
04-27-2011, 11:18 AM
Well, you said you've never crashed. If you want to get really technical :) , the definition of crashing does mean that damage is done. But my idea of crashing or accident is failing to perform what you intended to do. Anytime you failed to do something, I considered it some sort of crash rather it did damage or not. So technically you've crashed before... So now you won't jinx yourself... :D

ochiwon
04-27-2011, 02:34 PM
Well, you said you've never crashed. If you want to get really technical :) , the definition of crashing does mean that damage is done. But my idea of crashing or accident is failing to perform what you intended to do. Anytime you failed to do something, I considered it some sort of crash rather it did damage or not. So technically you've crashed before... So now you won't jinx yourself... :D

done and done! there definitely was damage, lost a lot of skin on my arms, back, and a bit on my chest... definitely felt like a crash! :angry7:

honorsdaddy
04-29-2011, 02:28 PM
done and done! there definitely was damage, lost a lot of skin on my arms, back, and a bit on my chest... definitely felt like a crash! :angry7:

Also remember that while you may do everything right, all it takes is one idiot on a cell phone...

The wreck need not be rider induced. Not a whole fuck of a lot you can do when you're sitting at a light and some River Oaks Barbie in an H2 cant manage to text, put on her makeup, drink her latte, screw with her iPod, adjust her sunglasses "just right" AND actually pay attention to the road...

jwreck
03-30-2012, 08:15 PM
3) Follow at a great distance: Leave as much following distance as you can stand when riding behind other vehicles. The more space you leave, the more time you have to react to any issues coming from the vehicles ahead. If you're on their bumper and they drive into an accident, you'll be in the same accident, whereas if you're 12 seconds back, when they drive into an accident you'll calmly pull over to a safe area, call 911 and lend a hand to those in the accident. Riding with greater following distances also allows you to get a good look at the road surface and provides you with plenty of time to avoid those giant potholes or spilled fluids that would otherwise end your ride.While I appreciate the sentiment and agree that you need to leave as large a buffer as possible, 12 second following distance is entirely unrealistic in Houston.


Edit to add: Just saw the date. Sorry for the necro bump.

Squoddybody
03-30-2012, 08:52 PM
While I appreciate the sentiment and agree that you need to leave as large a buffer as possible, 12 second following distance is entirely unrealistic in Houston.


Edit to add: Just saw the date. Sorry for the necro bump.

No problem, Noob. It's a good thread and is still a good message.

:thumb:

Squid Killer
04-01-2012, 09:07 AM
Saying every rider will crash is like saying every police officer will be shot by a bad guy. Its not true. There are many riders who spend a whole lifetime on the street without crashing. We are just helpless out there waiting for someone to hit us.

Good riders tend not to make the news so just because there isn't a story every other day about how someone just hit half a million safe miles accident free doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I ride with guys who have been on the street longer than I have been alive and many have never crashed.

Will every rider crash? NO
Will every gun owner shoot their foot off? No
Will every pilot crash? No
Will every house be broken in to? No.

Riding on the street is a risk and the future of that rider greatly depends on how that person conducts themselves while riding. Most accidents are avoidable and that depends on the operator of the bike.

invision
04-02-2012, 02:11 AM
I went for about 7 years without a wreck. Then I had two in about a month and a half (although one was at the track.)

Got the first one on video though!
ATXLowside - YouTube

Rael
04-02-2012, 07:28 AM
It is all probability. There is always a chance that you'll go down, and so even around the block I wear a helmet.

Thayleal
04-02-2012, 07:42 AM
I went for about 7 years without a wreck. Then I had two in about a month and a half (although one was at the track.)

Got the first one on video though!
ATXLowside - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yElm-CLrE1A)

Much less drastic than my lowside... I took my K3 around a corner on a back country... 1 lane, road.. not a highway and went around a corner... hit some dirt... landed in a newly tilled field.

Ulric
04-02-2012, 08:14 AM
Saying every rider will crash is like saying every police officer will be shot by a bad guy. Its not true. There are many riders who spend a whole lifetime on the street without crashing. We are just helpless out there waiting for someone to hit us.

Good riders tend not to make the news so just because there isn't a story every other day about how someone just hit half a million safe miles accident free doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I ride with guys who have been on the street longer than I have been alive and many have never crashed.

Will every rider crash? NO
Will every gun owner shoot their foot off? No
Will every pilot crash? No
Will every house be broken in to? No.

Riding on the street is a risk and the future of that rider greatly depends on how that person conducts themselves while riding. Most accidents are avoidable and that depends on the operator of the bike.

Can you produce statistical data supporting your claim of 'many'? :-)

Comparing riders having accidents to a gun owner shooting themselves, house being broken into or pilot crashing...c'mon. How about a gun owner suffering some sort of injury in a gun related activity, a pilot experiencing a technical/mechanical issue, or a house being broken into, and/or damaged by a storm or outside source. The ratios change don't they...and the longer these exist or take place the odds of it happening increase. That's just reality.

....course I gotta wonder how many of those 'never crashed' don't count 'I had to "lay er down"' as NOT crashing. :-)

Rael
04-02-2012, 08:23 AM
...course I gotta wonder how many of those 'never crashed' don't count 'I had to "lay er down"' as NOT crashing. :-)

I like it; it's analogous to, "it's not sex, it was only a blow job."

Lucar
04-02-2012, 09:11 AM
done and done! there definitely was damage, lost a lot of skin on my arms, back, and a bit on my chest... definitely felt like a crash! :angry7:

^^ this is called being a squid.. and then wonder how idiotic when laying down in pain..

Lucar
04-02-2012, 09:13 AM
Then I had two in about a month and a half (although one was at the track.)


I thought people went to the track to be spared from this ... guess they all got it wrong by this proof..

Lucar
04-02-2012, 09:19 AM
Great post, rural roads are dangerous, because of the mis-leading corners and single lanes. I give it to the SMR's, they ride back roads every week, the ones that are experienced, they ride hard, but in a safe manor on their skill level

Even though I don't considered myself experienced, and I talk a lot of crap about not being a noob, being common sensed and safe have nothing to do with being experienced nor being a noob.. SMR's as myself know the risk they embark to when throwing the leg over the bike to leave home early SM..

Is not just how you ride, but who you ride with.. I'd like to presume your age does have a lot to do with this but somehow it doesn't..
it's all about knowing your limits and knowing your (or being able to see) surroundings, then the rest is always impredictable.. road kill/traffic/"who you ride with"/constructions/ and so on..

Cethridge
04-03-2012, 01:09 PM
If you are not crashing, then you are not trying hard enough.

Life happens, you can trace every crash back to a decision. I personally believe the constant bantering about crashes and RIP threads is too negative. Remember the fallen, but focus on their life, not their death. If you think/talk about crashing enough, you are half way down. If you ride worrying about the "inevitable crash" then you are half way down. Focus on honing your skills and forget about crashes. That is why ATGATT!

I am reminded of the former riders who always have the story, "I had to throw it down and jump on top of it to keep from killing myself" Really?

texlurch
04-04-2012, 05:31 AM
Your odds of crashing are proportionate to how, what, and where you ride.

They are also proportionate to your training, experience, common sense, patience, and ego.

Take all those factors, + or -, and you'll come up with your personal "odds of crashing" level.

All those factors also change daily, hourly, by the minute.

Sorry, but odds are if you ride long enough, you WILL fall down. How severe it will be entirely depends on you.
You can't blame the cagers, if you are paying attention there is always an out.

All these guys that "have ridden longer than I am alive"; how and where do they ride? How truthful are they being really?

Once a month to the country bar?
Every single day, 100 miles of Houston traffic?
Weds at PP1?

You plug it in and figure out who the odds are will be on the ground?

RACER X
04-04-2012, 06:30 AM
If you are not crashing, then you are not trying hard enough.




i've heard Kenny Roberts never crashed, and rossi doesn't crash ofter..........guess they're not trying hard enough

for a street rider, very bad attitude to have.

mkgsxr
04-04-2012, 06:41 AM
i've heard Kenny Roberts never crashed, and rossi doesn't crash ofter..........guess they're not trying hard enough

for a street rider, very bad attitude to have.

Agreed:)

Bad attitude to have in general.

texlurch
04-04-2012, 06:49 AM
shiiit King Kenny had some memorable get offs.. I remember him coming off at close to 200 and sliding the length of a main straight on his butt... !

Badchev
04-04-2012, 08:15 AM
Your odds of crashing are proportionate to how, what, and where you ride.

They are also proportionate to your training, experience, common sense, patience, and ego.

Take all those factors, + or -, and you'll come up with your personal "odds of crashing" level.

All those factors also change daily, hourly, by the minute.

Sorry, but odds are if you ride long enough, you WILL fall down. How severe it will be entirely depends on you.
You can't blame the cagers, if you are paying attention there is always an out.

All these guys that "have ridden longer than I am alive"; how and where do they ride? How truthful are they being really?

Once a month to the country bar?
Every single day, 100 miles of Houston traffic?
Weds at PP1?

You plug it in and figure out who the odds are will be on the ground?

:thumb::nod:

I've been riding for awhile myself, I believe the odds are directly proportional to ego/common sense. The ability to keep some balance between the 2 is critical.............for some folks it is impossible.

adrenalinjunky
04-04-2012, 11:48 AM
I went for about 7 years without a wreck. Then I had two in about a month and a half (although one was at the track.)

Got the first one on video though!
ATXLowside - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yElm-CLrE1A)

I did the exact same thing! Lol just enough damage to piss me off but I was able to ride away so I couldn't b too mad, big key to me is IF/when u go down... LEARN FROM IT!!!

Lucar
04-04-2012, 12:00 PM
i've heard Kenny Roberts never crashed, and rossi doesn't crash ofter..........guess they're not trying hard enough

for a street rider, very bad attitude to have.

what "I" said + ^^^^ what he said... :msf?:

Cethridge
04-04-2012, 02:21 PM
what "I" said + ^^^^ what he said... :msf?:

You're both right about that, I should have prefaced that by saying if you are racing and you have never crashed, you aren't trying hard enough (I find it difficult to express my sarcasm on this interweb thing:computer:). If you are truly pushing to find your limits you will find them, sometimes you crash:shrug:. I ride about 6/10's maximum effort when I ride in the hill country and about 7/10's on track days when I am in the mood. Now get me on a mini? Full effort until I pit, win or crash. :D

Oh, and I have never taken MSF. :happy3: They did not have the course when I started riding :secret:

obed
04-05-2012, 03:14 PM
msf will keep you from going down like drivers ed keeps cagers from wrecking...
I am not saying it is inevitable, I am saying if you think about it too much, that will cause you to go down. If you are afraid your survival instinct will put you down...
there is no such thing as a rider who won't go down, but there are ways to ride to make it less likely to go down.

Squid Killer
04-05-2012, 03:46 PM
[QUOTE=obed;3214955)
but there are ways to ride to make it less likely to go down.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. With time those that are good at whatever they do are at less risk because they have developed good habits. Dr. Harry Hurt rode an entire lifetime without crashing. He was a devoted rider who even had a bike in his living room. He lived to be an old man riding most of his life in California traffic crash free.

It isn't something that comes easy and if you have a crash it doesn't always mean your good habits have failed you. I say if you think you are guaranteed to have a crash then you aren't trying hard enough.

obed
04-05-2012, 04:13 PM
I am not saying I will not have a wreck on my bike, I could get run over this afternoon. The last wreck I had on a motorcycle (other than pushing it on the track) was in 1966, while it was the cagers fault, if I had been riding a little more defensively it would not have happened. In my case I was riding south on a 4 lane road. I was following an 18 wheeler in traffic. Up ahead of us was a cross road with a stop sign, a lady was stopped at the stop sign, she thought she had room to cross because all she could see was an 18 wheeler coming very slowly. I was hidden from her view by the 18 wheeler, she started across the road headed east, at the same moment she started across, I got tired of following the 18 wheeler and moved into the "fast lane" to go around the truck, as I passed the 18 wheeler she came into my view... she saw me about the same time I saw her, she panicked and slammed on her brake stopping in my lane directly in front of me... I did a panic stop, faltered at the last moment and laid it down and slid into her car. The bike suffered only minor damage, bent lever and broken mirror. I was lucky and got minor road rash. I got up, pulled the wheels of the bike out from under her car... she just looked at me and drove off...
If I had been thinking I would have remembered that cross road and would waited until i was past it to go around the 18 wheeler that had been obstructing my view of the intersection... yes she pulled out in front of me (and the slower moving 18 wheeler) but had I been thinking and driving defensively it would not have happened.